tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5707645171160442312.post6751549875321447705..comments2010-06-18T09:49:57.790-04:00Comments on Press Pause to Reflect: On Death and Waiting 30 SecondsDaniel Bullard-Bateshttp://www.blogger.com/profile/10930142428698229185noreply@blogger.comBlogger8125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5707645171160442312.post-76889673407273232272009-07-02T09:22:04.426-04:002009-07-02T09:22:04.426-04:00@C.T.Hutt:
I see your point, but in Wing Commander...@C.T.Hutt:<br />I see your point, but in Wing Commander you have a fleet of starcrafts (I think). This way the loss of a mission is very like the loss of a life in Super Mario Bros. You lose a life, but no one cares. If you lose too much, it's game over.<br /><br />In an avatar based game, such as first person shooters and action games the matter is more complex... With this I don't want to say Wing Commander is bad, it's just that it's not the same situation.Ciro Continisiohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12356260874851669502noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5707645171160442312.post-72622630715002643212009-07-01T11:13:07.953-04:002009-07-01T11:13:07.953-04:00Sir Doom, I totally agree with a lot of that. I d...Sir Doom, I totally agree with a lot of that. I don't think dramatic failure belongs in every game; there are tons of platformers that would be weighted down by such an idea.<br /><br />Sweet Jesus, I can't count the number of times I've died in Megaman. If I had to start over every time...yikes.<br /><br />Just like I enjoyed the new Star Trek movie despite knowing that Kirk would inevitably win, I can enjoy plenty of games that similarly assume victory. I'd just like to see a few games explore different territory. We discuss "open ended" games a lot, but most games are still sufficiently closed to make failure an untenable narrative option.<br /><br />One game I think handled it really well was the underrated Blade Runner PC game. Death was pretty rare - you had to REALLY try to get yourself killed - but the wrong choices would make victory impossible. You sometimes needed to start the game over to progress any further. This was more of a learning process than an annoyance, though; you'd typically only do it once before you got your shit together.Joshhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09215610663405099556noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5707645171160442312.post-16418486972599412362009-07-01T10:58:17.804-04:002009-07-01T10:58:17.804-04:00For those of you who played the Wing Commander Ser...For those of you who played the Wing Commander Series you may recall that failure in a mission didn’t necessarily mean your complete demise. In fact, you could fail mission after mission and the game would just keep on going until you either got it together and flew a few successful missions to get back on the main story line or blew it so many times that the earth was destroyed. I liked that aspect of the game. It was much more satisfying than a simple “Game Over”.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00496219299854543889noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5707645171160442312.post-59539343477518208042009-07-01T04:58:52.866-04:002009-07-01T04:58:52.866-04:00I guess (without thinking too much) that the only ...I guess (without thinking too much) that the only good death that doesn't break immersion I have seen is performed in World of Warcraft, where you are turned into a ghost and sent back to the graveyard. Then you can (and must) walk all the way to your dead body to be revived. This is a good and efficient way to explain resurrection, but of course they could do it only for the fantasy setting, which accounts for a huge number of resurrections... For instance, in Bioshock, the life chambers... I don't think they are as much as good in explaining resurrection.Ciro Continisiohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12356260874851669502noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5707645171160442312.post-3002210076244505712009-06-30T18:22:06.263-04:002009-06-30T18:22:06.263-04:00I agree in part. Finalizing death in a game would...I agree in part. Finalizing death in a game would probably just become an annoyance. Even if the story writes itself around death happeneing, the second time you miss that Mega-Man jump, it will have lost its edge.<br />Because of the regularity of death in games, I feel like finalizing or putting too much story into it gets in the way.<br /><br />At some point, there will be some game that does this in a really impressive way, but the deluge of finalized death games built solely of garbage and cherry bubble gum will wash over us like so many teenage girls attempting to sing Alicia Keyes... Oh... Oh how they would try to sing Alicia Keyes.<br /><br />All that said, I do think that failure would be a more fitting candidate for this treatment. If I fail to protect a certain person in GTA, it really takes me out of the mood when I just get flashed "failure" and suddenly the same guy is up and running and annoying me all over again. Of course, even storyline altering failure has its downfalls. Numero uno of these, it really won't work until developers find a way to make a game with so many potential endings that it is more like shading than it is webbing. Good luck with that. No, seriously, good luck. That would be awesome.<br /><br />p.s. Link did fail, just not IN a game. If you pay attention to Wind Waker, that is a character named Link, but it is not a Link. Some crappy Link descendant must have screwed up somewhere, resulting in the Link family line dying out to be replaced by Lonely Island Jimmy.<br /><br />p.p.s Lonely Island Jimmy might be my favorite Link. Lonely Island Jimmy rules.CalexanderHampshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15046961981141615132noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5707645171160442312.post-76945900331541369262009-06-30T10:12:23.473-04:002009-06-30T10:12:23.473-04:00I agree that the respawn is a necessary feature in...I agree that the respawn is a necessary feature in a multiplayer action-oriented game to keep it fun. In fact, it would be pretty difficult to make any game fun when each death is final. It means that you'd have to start the game over each time you wanted to play, unless some other solution was found. I think I'll explore said other solution in a future post.<br /><br />Regardless, I think that Valve made a good call when they decided to come up with the closet-respawn idea. It keeps the game moving and fun. Though it would be nice to be able to turn it off from time to time when you want a more immersive, terrifying experience.Daniel Bullard-Bateshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10930142428698229185noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5707645171160442312.post-44349109037344546662009-06-30T10:08:17.657-04:002009-06-30T10:08:17.657-04:00Daniel and I were actually discussing that very op...Daniel and I were actually discussing that very option, a survival horror game with a large and varied "cast" from which new lives could be recruited. I'm not sure if it would assuage my problem - I really think death should mean something in games, and be more of a plot point than an inconvenience - but it might help one's sense of immersion if the same characters didn't pop back up from the dead so frequently.<br /><br />Also, the first time I read your idea I thought of President Truman. I really want to find him in the bathroom in a survival-horror game, bespectacled and wearing a linen suit, wielding two assault rifles. He'll kick down the door and yell, "Lock and load, motherfuckers!" It will indeed be on.Joshhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09215610663405099556noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5707645171160442312.post-31937720764882379692009-06-30T05:25:00.348-04:002009-06-30T05:25:00.348-04:00I actually thought that finding lost friends locke...I actually thought that finding lost friends locked in a closet in L4D was a smart way to represent respawn. I guess that in a game like that, respawn is a must-have, for you could say that for the ones who live it's a bit strange, but for the one who returns it's a good thing.<br />I don't like online shooters where you have 'only on life per game', like America's Army.<br /><br />Maybe what could have been done is to give the one who return a new identity, like: Francis is gone but the players find Ashley in the closet. Then Zoey dies, and they find Truman in the bathroom. Of course the list can't be endless, but 20 characters will do the trick.<br /><br />I agree with the general tone of the post though, I am just explaining my ideas on Left 4 Dead.Ciro Continisiohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12356260874851669502noreply@blogger.com